I sit down with Mats Ingulstad, professor at NTNU, whose research bridges the history of strategic materials, global supply chains, and the political economy of critical minerals. Mats takes us on a journey from his early studies in U.S. foreign economic policy to his pioneering research on deep-sea mining.
We explore the origins of strategic and critical minerals policies, tracing them back to the First and Second World Wars, where nations scrambled to secure resources for military and economic stability. Mats discusses the evolution of these policies, highlighting the tensions between military necessity and global trade that still resonate today.
We also dive deep into the complexities of Norway’s political landscape around resource governance—how the country managed its oil wealth, set up a model for state-controlled resource rents, and the current debates surrounding deep-sea mining in Norwegian waters. Mats provides historical context to Norway's decisions, comparing them with other resource-dependent nations like Canada, and unpacks why Norway's model succeeded where others struggled.
Finally, Mats sheds light on the broader historical narrative of deep-sea mining: from its early conceptualization during the Cold War as a solution to mineral scarcity to its resurgence as part of the green energy transition. He explains how this shift from "abundance" to "scarcity" frames the current political and environmental debate.
If you're curious about how history shapes today’s political decisions around critical minerals and the deep-sea mining debate, this is an episode you don’t want to miss.
Key Takeaways:
The historical roots of critical minerals policy and their military origins.
How Norway's political structure enabled unique resource governance models.
The complex legacy of deep-sea mining as a strategic and economic opportunity.
Why the political framing of resource abundance vs. scarcity matters today.
Timestamps
00:00 Introduction to Mats
03:47 Historical Context of Strategic and Critical Minerals
06:01 The Evolution of Resource Management in Warfare
08:17 Personal Journey into Academia and Deep Sea Mining
09:43 Norway's Approach to Natural Resource Governance
12:30 Trust and Society's Attitude Towards Deep Sea Mining
14:33 Political Discussion and Public Perception of Deep Sea Mining
17:10 Comparative Analysis: Norway vs. Canada in Resource Management
19:23 The Role of Historical Context in Resource Exploitation
21:38 Current Challenges in Deep Sea Mining Regulation
24:03 Future of Deep Sea Mining and Societal Trust
37:04 Navigating Resource Rent Tax Challenges
39:40 Norway's Strategic Decisions in Oil Management
45:15 The Role of State in Economic Development
48:58 Pension Fund and Statoil: A Model for Success
53:40 Risks of Deep Sea Mining: A Geopolitical Perspective
57:50 Understanding Uncertainty in Resource Projections
01:04:34 Balancing Public and Private Interests in Exploration
Theme music: Tamarack by Jesse Matas
Links to Mats’ related research projects
Fate of Nations. Natural resources and historical development, 1880-2015.
The high seas and the deep oceans. 3ROceans: Representations, resources and regulatory governance.
The Deep Dilemmas: Deep Sea Mining for the new Deep Transition? (TripleDeep)
This is part 1 of a 2 part episode tune in next week for the remainder of the conversation.
Share this post